Posts by Jonathan Drake

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

Wow that was amazing. I loved this video. the way he explains the difference between history as we see it and history as they saw it is so so good.

29

Devolution, not evolution

by abiather in

scientists discovered an organism that has not evolved in more than 2 billion years (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203104131.htm) .

one can dismiss this as an exception*!

yet overwhelming proofs are too obvious to miss if we take the community as an individual (community is the reflection of the behavior pattern of the individuals that make up the whole).

Jonathan Drake

Abiathar. People raised or exposed to JW doctrine such as ourselves must, WE MUST, be willing to admit we are woefully of science. The same is true of many raised or exposed to religion.

Before you can speak on the subject, you must educate yourself. Evolution is a fact, it is truth. It does not disprove God, nor does it prove God - but God is not the subject here. Evolution appears to be your topic, and evolution is proven. Please watch the show Cosmos with Neil degrades Tyson, season one episode 2 - I believe it's on Netflix. Buy some books, read up on it. Watch the following:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mIfmeHzdQc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid4WhXyAjM

Don't be a slave to enforced ignorance or brainwashing.

143

Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

by Watchtower-Free in

alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

over 2 minutes of pranking .

as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

Jonathan Drake

I think the only people who idolized the GB are those who cared far too much about position and titles.

Ive been thinking this all day because of the video. I honestly think those who have left idolize them more than those who are in. People inside will say, "their just imperfect men" but many who leave seem to focus on them way more as some real big deal.

In this video for instance Cedars focuses on how he laughed at his, "Jehovah's hand" remark like it's somehow telling of Anthony's inside knowledge of God being fake. It doesn't do this at all, Cedars is making an assumption and using innuendo to suggest it but it doesn't. People inside the org joke all the time about Jehovah's hand being in something silly. "Oh look there's one more piece of pie just for me, must be Jehovah's hand" is just one real example I witnessed; and there are many more. Any witness who saw this would just see exactly what you've pointed out:

1. They are not out of reach elitist leaders

2. They are witty normal human beings

3. Once you insult them directly they just turn the other cheek and hang up.

meanwhile Cedars looks like a "mentally diseased", obsessive person who went to great lengths to contact Anthony and act like a 12 year old.

16

Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be "true"?

by Jonathan Drake in

i recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the catholic church.

i led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are.

after about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (catholic), i said this:.

Jonathan Drake

No list but still very helpful thank you, I didn't even think to check jwfacts. I can use this even if no list is available.

my hope is to use this strategy going forward with any I can. But next time I want to be prepared with the very proof they challenge does not exist.

16

Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be "true"?

by Jonathan Drake in

i recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the catholic church.

i led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are.

after about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (catholic), i said this:.

Jonathan Drake

I recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the Catholic Church. I led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are. After about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (Catholic), I said this:

"Yep, as far as I'm concerned no religion caught up in scandals like child abuse and fraud could possibly be the true religion."

Silence ensued for about 6 seconds. This was followed by the response by someone that they disagree because the difference between the church and some others is its proven. I did not pursue it any further.

I was wondering if anyone has a list of cases against the watchtower from around the world I could possibly use? One already collected so I could avoid googling them all myself.

30

I just had a thought about the new KH design

by JeffT in

i've been trying to figure out the purpose of the new (bland, commercial style) building that the gb is pushing.

it is not a design that attracts attention, nor does it offer a lot in future resale value.

it will be more difficult to build than the wood residential style buildings, meaning they can't use their cheap unskilled labor force for a lot of the work.

Jonathan Drake

Village Idiot12 minutes ago
Jonathan Drake: "So how many of the rank and file are they willing to lose? I don't know if they'd make that sacrifice..."
I understand that upwards of 75% left during the Rutherford power struggles. It might actually be good for them to lose the 'weak' ones leaving only the diehards who will blindly obey any order.

Very good point. You're right, I could see this then. If this does happen it'd give those diehards more solidarity too, they could go on for who knows how long. Especially once the "persecution" starts when gay rights shines a spotlight on these organizations.

30

I just had a thought about the new KH design

by JeffT in

i've been trying to figure out the purpose of the new (bland, commercial style) building that the gb is pushing.

it is not a design that attracts attention, nor does it offer a lot in future resale value.

it will be more difficult to build than the wood residential style buildings, meaning they can't use their cheap unskilled labor force for a lot of the work.

Jonathan Drake

The governing body and branch are not the ones responsible for the Kingdom Halls. They sanction the build but then the congregation is on its own to pay the loan and make its own money. They did recently make the change that all extra funds should be sent to the branch tho.

Its to possible you could be on to something. But I don't see how this could happen without local elders knowing, congregats knowing, etc. This would create a sticky situation for the times when a meeting is for gay rights or abortion because while the branch may be amoral the individuals aren't necessarily. So how many of the rank and file are they willing to lose? I don't know if they'd make that sacrifice, and they'd have to to avoid discimination lawsuits as someone else pointed out.

but, maybe they are thinking about that and will grab as much as they can before that happens.

143

Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

by Watchtower-Free in

alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

over 2 minutes of pranking .

as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

Jonathan Drake

Um yes, Mr "you wash my clothes".... we have deliberately covered up men torturing and raping children just like the catholic church and we do really feel awful about it...... Is that what some of you expected???????
If you honestly think a gb member was going to admit to covering up molestation over a phone call w/ a shitbird laundry employee I got a bridge to sell you.
It was humorous if only on a juvenile scale. NOTHING else was going to come from this. Wake the fuck up
pbrow

Who positioned the caller as a laundry attendant? Cedars.

"Hello this is Fenton Steward with the Springfield Gazette and..."

"Hello this is Lloyd Evans and I have some questions about..."

"hello I'm a brother out of a congegation in Albany and I have some questions about some things that are really bothering my faith that I feel only you can answer.."

"Hi this is Brother Johnson, I'm at Patterson and I decided to get a hold of you because I'm really struggling to understand some things that have happened recently. Why did our representative lie under oath saying elders and ministerial servants don't group the friends together? He knew they make the car groups in field service meetings didn't he?"

We are talking about Anthony Morris, if you don't think he'd try to inflate his ego and possibly let something slip while trying to be a father figure ("as many of you know, I'm a father") then you have no idea who you're talking about.

143

Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

by Watchtower-Free in

alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

over 2 minutes of pranking .

as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

Jonathan Drake

Personally I think this is very poor taste.

We're talking about a man who bans people for giving constructive criticism or just disagreeing with his position because he views them as trolls. But then, rather than use this opportunity to get Morris talking and give him enough rope to hang himself with he just trolls in his own way. What an incredible hypocrisy.

If any governing body member was going to admit on recording that they covered up moleststions or other things as theocratic warfare while trying to encourage a "bethelite" it was Morris, but nah, let's troll him for a laugh instead.

15

Do Jehovah Witnesses give out mis-information deliberately?

by smiddy in

do you think it is possible that the g.b.is deliberately giving out mis-information to confuse either apostates or media that might be investigating them for one reason or another ?

speak out of both corners of their mouth .

and the reason they do so ?

Jonathan Drake

Yes. They know what they are doing.